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Map: ZTNDM3
BLooD_DoG 23 - 19 spec

Map: AEROWALK
BLooD_DoG 5 - 52 spec

Map: AEROWALK
BLooD_DoG 19 - 31 spec

[lb - Round 6 - Match 3]
submitted: 2013-11-18 04:31:49 by spec
confirmed: 2013-11-18 11:09:20 by eb
Snow 8 years ago
After this match i see pointless to sign up for any online tournament in the future. At least i wont for sure. What i have seen after the 1st map was the most pathetic thing since im playing. Exactly this is why qw will die.
spec 8 years ago
i better vote for separate tourneys in qw by continents, just make ur our tourneys in US, and dont poison european tournaments. if u dont have much action there just play another game, like call of duty. plz dont cramp our comfortable game with ur crazy pings, nothing personal
spec 8 years ago
and i should mention that first game i played via 2 proxies, so that was a reason i cant even normally jump, other games i played with only one proxy, so felt more comfortable, so maybe that was my mistake and shit from nowhere. ofcourse i was very angry that i cant even win my favourite map, where i loose really rarely and to most skillfull players like rikoll or milton, and now i should loose just because the ping i never play at, thanx god i reconnected via one proxy and could normally jump, so im sorry for delay, but that was ggs
witka 8 years ago
spec is whining lamer so do not blame QW snow.
And QW will never die :)
er 8 years ago
the swe ping whine eveolved lately into ru ping whine, gg :E
andeh 8 years ago
doesn't the rule say you only need to ping up to 39ms? Learn to read the rules before you do /ready. You can only blame yourself
locust 8 years ago
^
locust 8 years ago
I dont really get Snow's comment, what exactly happened? Must have been something extraordinary when you declare THIS game to be ONE game dooming quakeworld after 17years...

Such a shame though, Snow not signing up for any more qw-tourneys, qw will never ever be the same again...ever...

8))
BLooD_DoG 8 years ago
There was no problem whatsoever when starting the match. No suggestion to try a different server, no complaints, just a povdmm4 warmup and off we went. After I won on his map choice, the amount of whine was incredible. To be fair, half of the whine came from his teammate over QTV. Over 1 hour of the strangest arguments ever, a couple of them really blew my mind (favorite example: you don't have a chance against BPS and I do, so I need to win this match). Some of the QTV users messaged me afterwards in disbelief. From the very beginning I said I would do what the admin asked, and the admin said we should keep on playing. The admin eventually proposed to postpone the remainder of the match until a later date (to give spec time to practice), and I accepted even though it is against the rules. Finally, the admin offered me a walkover because spec refused to continue the match. I'd rather lose like a man than win like a coward, so I continued to wait through 1 hour of drama to give you a chance to win.

Spec, you're a good player and congrats on the win... I hope you're not too proud of your victory though, because I wasn't trying during any of the aerowalks :) Instead, I argued with my girlfriend because she spent the whole day driving and flying to visit me and was waiting to go out for dinner: I promised her I only needed ~30 minutes while she was unpacking her suitcase, but after 1 hour we got into a fight. I realize my personal situation doesn't affect anything in quake, but I say this to explain that I easily could have taken the walkover with a very clear conscience. Lucky for you, winning at all costs isn't worth it to me. Also, my stable 90 ping somehow bounced around from 90 to 130+ during the aerowalks, so you got your advantage after all! :)

Finally, I will continue to enter tournaments where the rules specifically say "non-European players are free to sign up as long as they play their matches in Europe". You are welcome to not enter tournaments where the rules say "Since there are players representing many different nations in DuelMania, be prepared to play with higher ping than you're used to". You told me to move to EU if I want to play vs you, you can also move to western EU (instead of practically being in Asia) and play me 90 vs 39 or 51 like everyone else does. Don't complain about my location if your location isn't optimal either :) And BTW, I've beaten most of the top players on ZTN, so you didn't lose just because of ping!

Anyway, thank you Mipa for trying to mediate, I appreciate your efforts.

Hugs and Kisses,
BD
fro 8 years ago
Snow I understand your frustration, after sitting through the bullshit following map 1.
Fortunately, this one incident is not indicative of the European quakeworld community.
Until this point, EU players have been very accommodating with ping issues. Sportsmanship will prevail.
spec your attitude is disgusting. Any progression in this tournament for you will be marred by your behaviour here.
cream 8 years ago
gg and wp! Spec ftw!

I know there's a lot of controversy over this, but I have to say that I honestly think that Spec is the clear winner here. He overcame many obstacles, and was willing to give up everything - even any consideration of "sportsmanship" (pfft, who needs that!) - in order to pry a [hollow] victory out of these amazing matches.

The ztndm3 game was a true pro game. Spec obviously lost this due to ping ("equal pings isn't even" as VVD says), so I'm surprised he even stayed for the other games. If I were Spec I would've /ragequit right away. gj for hanging in there spec!

Spec's amazing plan began to blossom when it came time to play BD's choice, aerowalk. This was a 40+ minute game which involved over 30 minutes of psychological warfare. Spec is the clear winner in that department, using gems like "how can i play my favourite map if i cant even come from teleport normally" and the fact that "i insist for another server" to weaken BD's resolve. Once the game started, Spec ("i cant play this shit really") quite easily managed to pull a win away from a weakened, saddened BD who wandered the map aimlessly as his girlfriend yelled at him. gj spec!

The second aerowalk game was a bit tighter, and the stakes were truly raised in this one. BD's ping settled far more often, which was a clear disadvantage to Spec ("130ms vs 65ms is more equal than 90 vs 90" (c) VVD). Despite this, it was clear that BD had no idea what he was doing, again wandering the map aimlessly and seeming not to care as Spec pulled off pro moves like "jumping" and "firing" despite the lag. IMO, this was a decisive win for the QW scene altogether because Spec can now go on to beat BPS easy lololol.

All together, gj spec, and congratulations on your future win against BPS! Everyone knows you can pull it off lololol.
BLooD_DoG 8 years ago
Andeh, just to clarify, he did not pingup and I did not request a pingup. He just lives very far and happens to ping 90 to the most fair server possible. Not sure why I should compromise just because he doesn't live in Central or Western Europe. All we did was play on the most fair EUROPEAN server, as the rules say and as the admin confirmed, and for some reason that turned into a shitload of drama.

On the other hand, in my match vs Kingpin there was a 20 second discussion about if pingup is necessary. Admin said no, no further discussion necessary, and we played our match! Actually, Kingpin was man enough to pingup to 90 anyway on the second map without any reason to :)
spec 8 years ago
i should mention one more thing, when u brought ur gf from aiport that was like afternoon in ur city? im my city that was 5-6 AM, and i already played qw for hours, played 2 maps of eql match, then played bunch of 2on2's, then i played duelmania versus er, and right after that u came and offered to play our match. OK game on pov made me sure there will be no problems to win atleast my fav map, the score on pov was 26-13. was that u or u asked ur girlfriend to play it? or u played with only one hand to lull my vigilance? anyway on ztn u aimed like with two hands)) ok i won but i dont want to feel like shit, so i offer to rematch on the deadline if admins approve it, same pings, u'll be without ur girlfriend and i'll be ready to that shitty ping, deal?
Klice 8 years ago
Cream, you got some *cream* at the corner of your mouth :p
spec 8 years ago
and one more thing to clear, we all play qw for having fun, and i have nomore fun when someone force me to play with so high ping i never played with. and 2nd thing, i want to ask blood_dog, why do u play in duel tournament? to win it? just think about it, people, could bd win top of eu players? bps, kingpin, locust, bulat? even if u force them to pingup, dont think so. so what we get here? u register in the tounament just to poison other players fun? my fun blows away when i see number 65 or higher near my nick. and if i should play 8 games in the tourney why should i play all games with normal 25-50 ping except 1 game with 90, when i never ever in my life played with such a shit ping? considering even that i will lose the game just because of that fact that i never tried and never wanted to play with this ping. and dont try to deny that u often play at european servers with ping 120-140.
So as we see, when i play with u, u gain ping below u practice ping in europe, and me(yeah im not so lucky i was born 1000km away from moscow) should play with ping way above my normal practice ping.
at that point all the fun of the game disappears at least for me.
And one more question to the admins, why do u allow NA players register in europen tournaments(i mean not only a duel) IF the games versus them starts or finishes about pingwhine from one side or another? we play this game for fun, so if they so love this game let them play there in NA, and dont intermix them with eu tourneys, because it becames a pingwars one way or another.
just take a look at signups, there are only 3 NA players, is that the reason to poison game to other 61 players?
BLooD_DoG 8 years ago
Hi Spec,

> "OK game on pov made me sure there will be no problems to win atleast my fav map, the score on pov was 26-13. was that u or u asked ur girlfriend to play it? or u played with only one hand to lull my vigilance?"

You were all warmed up after playing for hours, and I just got back from the airport with cold hands. I am not very good at pov anyway, but if I was warmed up maybe you would have won 20-18 instead of 26-13. I was not "faking" it, I was just getting my hands warm and getting the feeling, not trying to win. Sorry if you thought I was going to be easy, but that is not what I tried to do with the 26-13 result.

> "and 2nd thing, i want to ask blood_dog, why do u play in duel tournament? to win it? just think about it, people, could bd win top of eu players? bps, kingpin, locust, bulat? even if u force them to pingup, dont think so. so what we get here? u register in the tounament just to poison other players fun?"

I play to win and to have fun. I like to challenge myself, if I go against a 39 ping Kingpin or Milton or Locust I am not scared and I always try to win, even if I have 90 or 115. Maybe I am not the best dueler but I did pretty well and finished in the top 10 out of 61. I am not div0 at duel but I am capable of beating the top players on ztndm3 at least sometimes (I already beat most of the best, sometimes I had ping advantage but usually they did), and I had many very close games on aerowalk against kingpin, locust, and embah. Maybe only 5 people have a real chance of winning the tournament, should the 56 other people not enter just because they have no chance of winning? Maybe only TVS and SD should enter EQL because nobody else will win? In the 2on2 EU tournament last year me and Squeeze played with average 100+ and did very well against some very good teams… It’s better if we don’t play at all? Last season in EQL we were in Div1 with 3 players from NA and did very well too. Actually I prefer to lose in Div1 than win Div2, I always like a challenge. I’m not here to poison anything, sorry if you feel that way.

> “and dont try to deny that u often play at european servers with ping 120-140.”

Of course I play with ping 120 sometimes. I also play with ping 90 in UK, and ping 12 in New York, and ping 39 in Chicago, and ping 65 in Texas, and ping 180 in Brazil (no antilag, WTF Brazil?!), ... Please do not tell me I am “used to” ping 120, I am not used to anything. Actually I rarely play with 105+ because usually the 4on4 is on foppa (sometimes I have 115 there with bad routing, usually less). If you are used to only playing 12ms on LAN, are you going to complain if you have to play 26ms in a tournament? Really, it doesn’t matter what you are used to, it only matters that the rules are followed.

> “So as we see, when i play with u, u gain ping below u practice ping in europe, and me(yeah im not so lucky i was born 1000km away from moscow) should play with ping way above my normal practice ping."

My normal practice ping is <51, I only play in EU sometimes. If I know I have a match in EU, then I will practice with high ping. This is part of preparing for a match. If you know your opponent loves dm4, then maybe you will practice dm4. If you know your match will be on a 51ms server instead of a 12ms server, you should practice on a 51ms server. Almost everybody else in EU can play me with 26 or 39 or sometimes 51, but because you are so far there is a problem :( However, distance-wise I am actually closer geographically to many parts of Europe (Portugal, France, Iceland, UK, …) than you… We both live far from most of Europe, and there’s no real solution other than to find a server in the middle. This was a problem for our EQL match too, and your team forced us to play on a very bad server when nobody on my team ever practices with >65, and we had people with impossible pings of 200... It was ridiculous… Actually we never forced anyone to pingup to 51 on EQL even if the rules say we are allowed to (and we even helped teams ping down with proxy). Only after our “match” in EQL against you did we decide to be strict and force people to follow the rules.

> “And one more question to the admins, why do u allow NA players register in europen tournaments(i mean not only a duel) IF the games versus them starts or finishes about pingwhine from one side or another? we play this game for fun, so if they so love this game let them play there in NA, and dont intermix them with eu tourneys, because it becames a pingwars one way or another. just take a look at signups, there are only 3 NA players, is that the reason to poison game to other 61 players?”

This question is for admins but I will answer with my opinion: The community is so small that we should try to be inclusive, not exclusive. If you want to be such a tight community, why don’t you go 1 step further and limit tournaments to 12ms? Why is 45 the limit for you? Really, the problem only happens at the extremes, i.e. Russia and NA. Most of the rest of EU has no problems to play in UK with max 51 or even less. Of course, if the admins and community votes to ban all non-EU players, then that’s their choice, I just don’t think it’s a good choice given the shrinking community. Many times there is a 7/8 mix and I join to “save” the 4on4. You prefer if I never play in EU? We really don’t have that many players left, I think it’s sad if we push out the remaining players.

> "ok i won but i dont want to feel like shit, so i offer to rematch on the deadline if admins approve it, same pings, u'll be without ur girlfriend and i'll be ready to that shitty ping, deal?"

Ok, this is honorable of you to propose, and I do appreciate it. If we can find a time to play then sure, otherwise you can enjoy your win and I wish you luck against BPS (and this time I’m not being sarcastic).

За здоровье! (Za zdarov'e!)
BD
andeh 8 years ago
Doesn't BD pretty much live closer to EU than spec does? :D:D

Anyway, I stay with my first comment - it's all your fault spec, you didn't have to do /ready if you were unsatisfied with the pings :-) read the rules of the tournament before you do /ready!

I love that americans sign up for the tournament. They agree when signing up to play with very high ping and they do it anyway which is awesome if you ask me! It's all your fault spec, for doing /ready on a server you were not satisfied with.

I can understand that finding a server that is good for both a russian and an american is hard, but the american has agreed to high pings, so once again it's all your fault spec.

Fecestest
sane 8 years ago
spec: > and 2nd thing, i want to ask blood_dog, why do u play in duel tournament? to win it? just think about it, people, could bd win top of eu players? bps, kingpin, locust, bulat?

- he sure as fck has a better chance than u. wtf do you know? just aerowalk? you got nothing man, and you whine more than anyone ive ever seen. you and DVD are nothin but trashbags. 1v1 same pings spec lets go, so i can shut ur ass up.
spec 8 years ago
insane dude in delirium, someone call keepers, he needs some needle!!! urgent!
spec 8 years ago
if ur keepers let u be away for an hour from ur mental institution, find me and check my skill on anymap u want, i play almost every night
bps 8 years ago
<3 wtf
spec 8 years ago
andeh, u are so funny man! thats why i'll kill u last, ur comment would have sense if i lost that game!
spec 8 years ago
anyway blood_dog if u love this game so much u that play with so crazy pings u deserve to get further, i dont want to participate in this tourney anymore and probably not gonna register in the future. i play this game for fun, but latest events gave me only pain and frustration. i played so many games in a row past few days so i got some kind of a mental exhaustion, so i should rest for a couple of days, and want to watch ur game vs bps ffs! i thins admins could give u WO over me,that would be more fair that give WO to bps over me, so u could fight each other, i'll be cheering for u dude!)
andeh 8 years ago
uhm, what? :-P what the hell are you talking about lol
phil 8 years ago
Its refreshing to read this exchange between spec and bd. Both raise excellent points, and even after such a heated match they are able to discuss the issues very well.

There will always be ping whine, but I think the time is over when most people (eu/ru included) are used to a higher ping. It has been majority of low ping for quite a long time now, especially outside of scandinavia. So the cons outweigh the pros for a global online tournament, and hopefully future duel events will consider this and have eu/ru section on one side, and (hopefully with enough participants) a na section on the other side.

Finally, while it is sad that theres still trolling from sane and cream to this day, on the other hand it is nice to see players improve so drastically. I remember when bd was quite low skill, but its clear he loves the game and he keeps playing it and now hes at a very high level! I don't know specs story (someone told me some of his aliases and I guess spec is a "recently" improved player as well) but watching some of his pracs he seems very good as well.

This tournament is not yet over :)
Rikoll 8 years ago
Spec should spec. Retarded attitude.
spec 8 years ago
why dont u play this tournament, genius?
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